Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106

01/10/2006 01:30 PM House TRANSPORTATION


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01:30:17 PM Start
01:32:53 PM Overview: Federal Funds Previously Earmarked for the Bridges and the Stip
03:34:54 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Discussion of federal funds previously
earmarked for the bridges and the STIP.
NOTE: Room Change
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                        January 10, 2006                                                                                        
                           1:30 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jim Elkins, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Carl Gatto, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Mark Neuman                                                                                                      
Representative Bill Thomas                                                                                                      
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
Representative Woodie Salmon                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
OVERVIEW: FEDERAL FUNDS PREVIOUSLY EARMARKED FOR THE BRIDGES AND                                                                
THE STIP [STATEWIDE TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM].                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JEFF OTTESEN, DIRECTOR                                                                                                          
Division of Program Development                                                                                                 
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                     
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the Governor's transportation                                                                     
spending proposal.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE WUERCH, CHAIR                                                                                                            
Knik Arm Bridge and Toll Authority (KABATA)                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of funding a bridge                                                                    
across the Knik Arm in Anchorage.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BOB FRENCH, Co-Vice President                                                                                                   
Government Hill Community Council                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BERNARDO HERNANDEZ, Director                                                                                                    
Community Planning                                                                                                              
Fairbanks North Star Borough                                                                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM COLVER, Deputy Mayor and Assembly Member                                                                                    
Matanuska-Susitna Borough                                                                                                       
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GARRET VAN ABBOTT                                                                                                               
Ketchikan, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN HOOD                                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EMILY FERRY, Director                                                                                                           
Alaska Transportation Priorities Project                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CLIFF LOBAUGH                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB DOLL, Executive Director                                                                                                    
Better Ferries For Alaska                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JANET KUSSART                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAN WRENTMORE, Business Owner                                                                                                   
Skagway, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE BARTON, Commissioner                                                                                                       
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in  support of Alaska congressional                                                               
delegation ability  to bring more money  to Alaska transportation                                                               
projects.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD THOMAS                                                                                                                   
Craig Community Association                                                                                                     
Craig, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
funding priorities.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JANELLE WALTON                                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRED ATTHORP                                                                                                                    
Ketchikan, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GLENN MILLER, Director                                                                                                          
Department of Transportation                                                                                                    
Fairbanks North Star Borough                                                                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN COMBS, Mayor                                                                                                               
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  opposition   to  governor's                                                               
proposed funding priorities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   GATTO  called   the   House  Transportation   Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order   at  1:30:17  PM.  Representatives                                                             
Neuman,  Salmon, Gatto  and Elkins  were present  at the  call to                                                               
order. Representatives Kapsner and  Thomas arrived as the meeting                                                               
was  in progress.  Representatives Gara  and Stoltze  and Senator                                                               
Huggins were also present.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW:  FEDERAL FUNDS  PREVIOUSLY EARMARKED  FOR THE  BRIDGES                                                             
AND THE STIP                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  announced that the  only order of  business would                                                               
be a  discussion of  federal funds  previously earmarked  for the                                                               
[Knik Arm  and Gravina  Island] bridges  and the  STIP [Statewide                                                               
Transportation Improvement Program].                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:32:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JEFF   OTTESEN,  Director,   Division  of   Program  Development,                                                               
Department  of  Transportation  and Public  Facilities  (DOT&PF),                                                               
said  his division  works with  federal funds.  He noted  that he                                                               
will  discuss  three things:  the  Knik  Arm and  Gravina  Island                                                               
bridge  funding that  is in  the governor's  capital budget,  the                                                               
Statewide Transportation  Improvement Program (STIP) as  a whole,                                                               
and  the "forces  bearing down  on  the STIP."  Mr. Ottesen  said                                                               
there are  $91 million for  the Gravina Bridge and  $92.6 million                                                               
for the  Knik Arm Bridge  in the  capital budget. He  stated that                                                               
the earmarks  were renamed by  Congress; they weren't  taken away                                                               
as  earmarks, but  renamed to  DOT&PF without  specific projects.                                                               
Congress  said that  the eligibility  for spending  the funds  is                                                               
like the STIP  category, which is a federal category  that is the                                                               
most flexible,  he added. He  said it  could be spent  on trails,                                                               
roads, busses, ferries,  and "just about anything  you could name                                                               
under  the transportation  umbrella."  He said  DOT&PF looked  at                                                               
this new classification  of funds and considered what  to do with                                                               
it  since  it  has  no  project  earmark.  He  noted  that  state                                                               
regulations require  all unrestricted  funds to  go to  a formula                                                               
which he showed to the committee as a pie chart.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:36:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  that under  the distribution  formula, 48%  of                                                               
unrestricted funds  go to the  National Highway System, 8%  go to                                                               
other highways  in the state--called  the Alaska  Highway System,                                                               
and about 41%  goes to trails, recreational  access and community                                                               
transportation  programs.  "The slice  in  orange,  the two  sub-                                                               
categories, then gets further sub-allocated  to Alaska's MPOs, or                                                               
Metropolitan  Planning  Organizations,"  he  explained.  He  said                                                               
there are two  MPOs in Alaska: Fairbanks and  Anchorage. The rest                                                               
of the  pie is shared  with all other communities  for community-                                                               
class roads, he added, and the  governor wants to take the bridge                                                               
money out of the National Highway  System's 48%. He said there is                                                               
absolutely  no  impact  to  community projects  due  to  the  two                                                               
bridges. "The  bridges at this  point are not  impacting projects                                                               
that communities nominate  and ask for. It's  not impacting money                                                               
that goes to the MPOs of Anchorage or Fairbanks," he stated.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  funding in  the STIP  is not  the same  as the                                                               
first  "number"  that comes  out  of  Congress, because  Congress                                                               
tends to  reduce the original  appropriation level. Last  year it                                                               
appropriated   at  only   80-85%,  so   DOT&PF  is   assuming  an                                                               
appropriation of 85% into the future, he said.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said  the heart of the issue is  how DOT&PF's mission                                                               
and the STIP  intertwine. DOT&PF's mission is to  move people and                                                               
goods, he said, but not all  roads are created equal. He showed a                                                               
chart of Alaska roads and their ownership and importance.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:40:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said that prior to  1991, only the top  two tiers of                                                               
roads were eligible  for STIP money, but in Alaska  all roads are                                                               
now  eligible.  "Our road  mileage  competing  for these  dollars                                                               
tripled in one fell act of  Congress," he noted. DOT&PF is trying                                                               
to spend  more of the money  at the bottom of  the pyramid, which                                                               
means less money for the top, he stated.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:41:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  showed graphs  of vehicle-use  across the  state and                                                               
the  number  of accidents.  Arteries  of  commerce are  the  most                                                               
important,  he stated.  The state  is sending  about 40%  of STIP                                                               
funding to  local-class, community-class roads, and  other states                                                               
send  only  20%  of  their STIP  dollars  to  local-class  roads.                                                               
"We're  already  sending more  money  down  to those  lower-class                                                               
roads  than any  other state  at the  expense of  the big  roads.                                                               
That's another example of the problem."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said a  third issue is  that the  Safe, Accountable,                                                               
Flexible,  Efficient  Transportation  Equity Act:  A  Legacy  for                                                               
Users (SAFETEA-LU) bill  passed by Congress is  full of earmarks,                                                               
many of  which are  not fully funded.  He questioned  whether the                                                               
STIP would  be used to  fund those projects, diffusing  the money                                                               
needed for DOT&PF's main job of keeping highways intact.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said a fourth  eligibility issue is  that operations                                                               
and maintenance  have been shifted  to STIP dollars,  taking away                                                               
from  new  projects.   The  money  goes  to   worthy  needs  like                                                               
guardrails  and  line  painting, he  stated.  DOT&PF's  operating                                                               
budget  has been  essentially  flat  over the  past  25 years  in                                                               
actual dollars  but not considering  the increase in the  cost of                                                               
living. These are necessary, he  said, but the state can't expect                                                               
the STIP to support as many projects because of it.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:47:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said dollars are more  limited now than in the recent                                                               
past. The SAFETEA-LU  earmarks to the two bridges  were "just the                                                               
drop in  the bucket," he stated,  and were not the  only earmarks                                                               
for  projects  in the  state  to  subtract from  DOT&PF's  normal                                                               
spending money.  There were $440  million for earmarks  in Alaska                                                               
and only  $125 million went  to bridges. Focusing on  the bridges                                                               
as a  source of a  problem is missing  the point, he  stated. Mr.                                                               
Ottesen  showed  a  chart  of  the money  the  state  would  have                                                               
received if there had been no earmarks, and said:                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     If you  look at  this pie  chart...the large  circle on                                                                    
     the  right was  formula  dollars the  state would  have                                                                    
     received if  there had been  no earmarks.  That formula                                                                    
     is  $2,100 million  in size,  or $2.1  billion. If  you                                                                    
     look at  the orangey circle  on the left, it's  about a                                                                    
     billion dollars  in earmarks the state  received. Where                                                                    
     they overlap,  the earmarks drew  their money  from the                                                                    
     formula funds  at the  rate of  $597 million  for about                                                                    
     $119 million each year of the five-year STIP.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:49:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said  authorized money is not  necessarily the amount                                                               
Alaska will receive from the  federal treasury. He said the total                                                               
funds  the state  received under  SAFETEA-LU was  just over  $2.5                                                               
billion, including  all the earmarks  and all the  formula money.                                                               
He added  that the money  for the  two bridges ($148  million for                                                               
Gravina and $179 million for Knik)  will be received on the five-                                                               
year  life  of  the  bill  in  installments  and  will  be  fully                                                               
available in  2009. He said  Congress allocates money  by formula                                                               
in  several  different categories,  and  normally  the state  can                                                               
select the projects for the money,  but in this bill the pressure                                                               
was on Congress to earmark. He continued:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     There was  a clamor  for earmarks.  There was  a clamor                                                                    
     for  a  very  large  program,  and  there  were  budget                                                                    
     pressures   at   the   same   time.   Those   pressures                                                                    
     essentially collided as  the bill came to  the end, and                                                                    
     they capped  the bill  down at a  growth rate  that was                                                                    
     relatively  modest, at  the same  time  they needed  to                                                                    
     deliver earmarks. And  the only way they  could get out                                                                    
     of  the conundrum  was to  take earmarks  out of  money                                                                    
     that states  would have received  as formula.  That was                                                                    
     money  we would  have expected  to see  in our  regular                                                                    
     program and  would have gone  to the  [National Highway                                                                    
     System] and the  [Community Transportation Program] had                                                                    
     it  not been  earmarked...Gravina  was subtractive.  It                                                                    
     came  out of  the overlap  of the  two circles  at $148                                                                    
     million,  and Knik  came  out of  the  overlap at  $179                                                                    
     million.  The  additional money  to  make  up the  full                                                                    
     amount of earmark was additive.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:52:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN added  that in  addition to  earmarks "reducing  our                                                               
funds," there  were other changes  in SAFETEA-LU. The  state also                                                               
receives money  for set-aside  programs with  narrow constraints,                                                               
he said.  The money  for these restrictive  programs grew  by $25                                                               
million per year  for the past five years, and  he said the state                                                               
will "build  projects with those dollars,  but it tends to  go to                                                               
projects that  are no where near  as important to people  who ask                                                               
us  for  run-of-the-mill projects."  The  money  tends to  go  to                                                               
important safety  improvements, bridge replacements,  trails, and                                                               
air  quality issues.  A third  problem, he  said, is  the Highway                                                               
Trust Fund  is "not delivering  cash at  the level that  we would                                                               
like." He noted that the trust is  built on gas taxes, and as the                                                               
price of  fuel goes  up, less  gas is  purchased, and  less money                                                               
goes  into the  trust fund.  He noted  two national  reports that                                                               
suggest the trust fund has flaws  and needs to be fixed. He added                                                               
that Alaska relies  on the trust fund almost  exclusively for its                                                               
highway program.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:54:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said construction  costs have  jumped almost  30% in                                                               
the past  year, and  there have  been increases  in the  price of                                                               
cement, energy, steel,  labor and asphalt. "If  our projects cost                                                               
30% more,  right there we've lost  the ability to build  3 out of                                                               
10 projects that were previously on  a STIP," he noted. He stated                                                               
that  legal  requirements  create   "lots  of  strings,"  and  he                                                               
mentioned the  National Environmental  Protection Act  and others                                                               
that can add to the cost of a project.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:56:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said Alaska  STIP funds are  reduced by  the state's                                                               
chosen safety  laws that don't  meet federal standards.  He noted                                                               
that Alaska's  repeat offender  law and  open container  law cost                                                               
the state $12 million to its road-building program.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO asked  if Alaska's  pending seat  belt law  would                                                               
reduce this loss.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said  the state will receive a  financial reward when                                                               
that law is enacted.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:58:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said SAFETEA-LU  money is down  this year,  and "I'm                                                               
here to  tell you it's not  all about the bridges.  There's a lot                                                               
of  other factors  in play  besides the  bridges." He  noted that                                                               
DOT&PF  publishes   a  needs  list   built  upon   requests  from                                                               
communities  which  would  cost  over $10  billion,  and  current                                                               
funding  can only  address 2%  of the  list. He  said there  is a                                                               
"disconnect between what people  want for transportation and what                                                               
we can  deliver out of  the STIP." He  said there are  three main                                                               
systems of  roads funded  out of the  STIP: the  National Highway                                                               
System,  the Community  Transportation  Program,  and the  Alaska                                                               
Highway System.  He noted  that to repave  every mile  would take                                                               
66-132  years  for  each  system.  He said,  "We  simply  have  a                                                               
disconnect between the current miles  on the state system and the                                                               
dollars we're receiving in the STIP today."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:01:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said Alaskans expect the  STIP to fund all roads with                                                               
a few  exceptions because there  is no other source  of dedicated                                                               
funds.  Other states  provide additional  funds, which  are often                                                               
larger than  the STIP  money they receive.  He noted  that Alaska                                                               
has only begun to use tolls, which  tend to be common in the rest                                                               
of the country.  He said that Texas will toll  its entire freeway                                                               
system to  fund its  roads, and Oregon  is considering  a mileage                                                               
tax.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:02:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said the two  bridges will cost about  $184 million,                                                               
but other projects  add up to more lost funding  to the state for                                                               
the  five-year period.  Building the  state's earmarked  projects                                                               
will use $269  million; the projects built  with restricted funds                                                               
will use $125 million; the  shortfall from the Highway Trust Fund                                                               
will  be $300  million; preventative  maintenance will  cost $260                                                               
million; the  money lost  from Alaska  not complying  with safety                                                               
laws  will cost  $60  million; and  construction cost  escalation                                                               
will cost $300  million. "In five years we have  lost the ability                                                               
to  build over  a billion  dollars worth  of projects,  so it  is                                                               
simply not  fair to  blame it  all on the  bridges," he  said. He                                                               
added  that the  bridges will  cost the  state three  $12-million                                                               
projects every  year, and  because of the  other factors  he just                                                               
listed, the state will lose  the ability to build twenty-two $12-                                                               
million projects. Alaska shares  more STIP dollars to communities                                                               
than any other state to  the detriment of the higher-level roads,                                                               
he stated, and the state has no supplemental funding source.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:05:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said that 100  years ago Alaska  had a tax  on every                                                               
able-bodied man  to build roads  for two  days, and 50  years ago                                                               
Alaska passed the  highest gas tax in the country.  The state now                                                               
has the lowest at $.08 a gallon.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:05:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO  said Alaska  is  different  because the  federal                                                               
government  funds all  its transportation  needs. The  state gets                                                               
back $5.50  for every dollar it  sends, he said, and  he asked if                                                               
that ratio varies.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  said   it  has  varied,  but  it  is   a  "bone  of                                                               
contention." There are many states  that get less money back than                                                               
they contribute, he said, and  Alaska will be negatively impacted                                                               
if that changes. "We were lucky  to sustain the ratio we got, and                                                               
I don't know that we could ever make it grow," he opined.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:07:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  asked if  the money  for the  bridges will                                                               
take away from local road projects.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said it will not.  Showing a pie chart,  he said the                                                               
money originally earmarked for the  bridges "has been poured into                                                               
that pie,  and the slice that  goes to the bridges  is coming out                                                               
of the slice on the left:  the National Highway System slice. And                                                               
the  rest of  the money  is either  going to  the Alaska  Highway                                                               
System or  it's gone  down to the  [Trails and  Recreation Access                                                               
for Alaska program] and  the [Community Transportation] Program."                                                               
The  communities are  getting more  money because  of the  bridge                                                               
earmarks, he stated.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO noted that federal money is discounted by 15%.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:10:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said that is just  a predication from past years, and                                                               
writing the new STIP at 85% shows a little optimism.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAPSNER asked  what the  money would  be eligible                                                               
for if the legislature decided not to build the two bridges.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:11:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  the bridge  money would  flow to  the National                                                               
Highway System.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked for examples.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN listed  national highways  in Alaska,  including the                                                               
Parks,  Seward, Glenn,  Egan, Sterling,  Steese,  Dalton and  the                                                               
Alaska Marine Ferries and terminals.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked if Lake  Otis [Parkway] or a highway                                                               
in Bethel would be eligible.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said they would  not but that community projects will                                                               
receive more money. "You will  see projects accelerate in the new                                                               
STIP because  of the  decision that  was made  in money  going to                                                               
community programs," he added.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON  asked if  bridge money  could be  used for                                                               
the road from Haines to Juneau.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN answered, "In theory, yes."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  asked if a  road from  Haines to Juneau  would be                                                               
considered part of the National Highway System.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  that  is  likely because  the  ferry route  is                                                               
considered a national  highway. The state would  have to petition                                                               
the  federal Department  of  Transportation to  add  it, and  the                                                               
process takes about three years.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:12:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked  if other states could  use the funds                                                               
if the bridges aren't built.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said the money is for the Alaska DOT&PF.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS asked if the  bridge funding will require a                                                               
state match.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:13:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said there would be  a state match at  a 91:9 ratio,                                                               
or about $22 million of state  money, "and likewise it would be a                                                               
little over  $23 million  for Knik  Arm, and  then of  course the                                                               
projects have  cost estimates  that may  be different  than these                                                               
earmark amounts." Also,  the bridge projects would  need money in                                                               
addition  to match  money in  order  to be  completed on  current                                                               
schedules, he added.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  asked if  it matters what  the legislature                                                               
does, because  none of  the projects  that the  legislature voted                                                               
for last year were built. He  said that DOT&PF has power over the                                                               
legislature, and  it seems  that the  body can  only vote  to not                                                               
build.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:14:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN explained  that last year DOT&PF was  building a STIP                                                               
based  on an  estimate of  future funds.  He said  the state  was                                                               
getting money  on a  monthly installment plan,  and at  the tenth                                                               
installment  out of  twelve, the  federal government  said Alaska                                                               
actually  owed  money and  wanted  some  back. Mr.  Ottesen  said                                                               
DOT&PF  had only  nine months  worth of  money, so  2005 projects                                                               
will move  into 2006. He  apologized for the  over-estimate which                                                               
was  caused   by  inflation,  restricted  funds,   and  deductive                                                               
earmarks, which  could not have  been reasonably  anticipated, he                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:16:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR ELKINS  asked if the  $11 million already spent  for the                                                               
Gravina Bridge is included.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said the  $11 million  is in  addition to  the funds                                                               
proposed for the project.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:17:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA expressed that  good government would require                                                               
an estimate  of costs before  allocating funds, and the  plan for                                                               
the Knik  Arm Bridge  does not  include four  miles of  road from                                                               
downtown Anchorage and  the costs for the road on  the other side                                                               
of the  bridge. He said the  bridge design, the access  route and                                                               
number of road miles is not final.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO interjected to say,  "Mayor [George] Wuerch is, in                                                               
my  opinion the  most  knowledgeable person  about  all of  these                                                               
questions." He asked that the committee let Mr. Wuerch testify.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  continued to  ask  if  it was  unique  that                                                               
DOT&PF is asking to put $90  million into a project before anyone                                                               
knows the costs.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said  he thinks there have been times  when the state                                                               
has done  it before. He said  he thought there was  a decision to                                                               
go  ahead with  the Parks  Highway which  took several  years. He                                                               
also  said  the Whittier  Tunnel  had  cost estimates  that  were                                                               
wrong. He  noted that  there have been  other mega  projects that                                                               
add to the state's infrastructure. He  said the road to the north                                                               
of the Knik Bridge will be built anyway.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:19:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE  WUERCH,  Chair,  Knik   Arm  Bridge  and  Toll  Authority                                                               
(KABATA), Anchorage,  said that the 2003  legislature created the                                                               
authority.  He said  forecasts show  that  the area's  population                                                               
increase will  be the same  whether the  Knik bridge is  built or                                                               
not,  except  after  2010  when forecasts  show  an  increase  in                                                               
population in the  Matanuska-Susitna area due to  the bridge. Two                                                               
public opinion  polls show  that the  bridge project  addresses a                                                               
legitimate need and has good,  strong support, he stated. He said                                                               
a Florida  designer drew  up a  design of the  bridge and  made a                                                               
cost  estimate.  He  pointed  to results  of  a  Federal  Highway                                                               
Administration scoping  process that included access  roads and a                                                               
bridge of 8,200  feet. He said the scoping also  looked at access                                                               
to  the  bridge  through  tunnels   under  Government  Hill,  and                                                               
"there's  any  number of  solutions  there  that  are yet  to  be                                                               
resolved in the final [Environmental Impact Statement].                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:23:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WUERCH said there are  three proposals from different "world-                                                               
class"  engineering  design firms  resulting  in  a project  cost                                                               
estimate of  $600 million  for a  8,200-foot bridge  "with gravel                                                               
causeways and  roads and  tunnels, as  the case  may be,  on each                                                               
end, total  project connectivity to existing  roads..." He showed                                                               
the  committee a  funding chart  which included  the $94  million                                                               
federal  funding,  a  special   grant  to  the  Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
[Borough]  to build  and  pave  the road  to  the  port, and  the                                                               
possibility   of   state   appropriations  and   private   sector                                                               
investments. He said he assumed  a 1:1:1 ratio of federal, state,                                                               
and debt, and he then hired  a firm to test the commercial market                                                               
for debt.  He said the  firm said  that "we're credit  worthy for                                                               
$200  million, assuming  a  toll  of three  to  five dollars  per                                                               
crossing--that's  on a  private vehicle;  trucks, of  course, and                                                               
heavy  haulers would  cost more."  He  added that  if federal  or                                                               
state money can't pay for it,  he would look at restructuring the                                                               
debt environment.  The cost  in time and  money of  bypassing the                                                               
bridge, he  said, is $15 for  a person who lives  in Pt. McKenzie                                                               
and wants  to drive to Anchorage.  He said tolls are  a great way                                                               
to leverage state and federal money.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:27:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WUERCH continued:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     The $94  million from  the federal pool  is only  4% of                                                                    
     the total  money in TEA-LU.  So Alaska's  $2.1 billion,                                                                    
     you saw on the slides a  minute ago, the $94 million is                                                                    
     about 4% of that total.  In addition, what you see with                                                                    
     a  toll  bridge is  the  opportunity  to leverage  your                                                                    
     contribution,  the  state  and  federal  equity,  by  a                                                                    
     substantial number.  And on that  closing, I  will just                                                                    
     say a rate  of return in the neighborhood  of 35% isn't                                                                    
     all bad if you're making  investments, and when you pay                                                                    
     one third of the cost with  debt and let others pay it,                                                                    
     that's a good advantage.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:28:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked where the  $50 million road grant to                                                               
the Matanuska-Susitna [Borough] would come from.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WUERCH said  that would  be  state money,  "because if  it's                                                               
state  money, then  it becomes  a maintenance  project--that road                                                               
exists, it's  gravel today,  it should be  asphalt, and  they can                                                               
move that  project forward  this season, and  they can  pave that                                                               
road, and move it ahead, and  that's $50 million dollars worth of                                                               
work that the toll bridge doesn't have to do."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAPSNER asked  if  the money  would  be from  the                                                               
[general fund].                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WUERCH  said, "We  want to take  advantage of  the scheduling                                                               
and  the  efficiency  of  doing  it with  state  money  that  the                                                               
[general fund] would be the proper way to go about that."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:29:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN asked  why Alaskans  outside of  Anchorage                                                               
would want to fund the bridge.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:30:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WUERCH  answered that people  north of  the Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
[Borough] will  see increased efficiency of  freight transfer and                                                               
"the  potential to  see the  railroad laid  right alongside  this                                                               
highway  bridge in  future years."  He noted  that for  Southeast                                                               
Alaska residents  "struggling for  ferry funds  or new  roads and                                                               
bridge funds, it's probably a toss up."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  said the House Transportation  Standing Committee                                                               
addresses airports,  the marine highway, roads  and railroads for                                                               
the entire state.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked  about the $600 million  in total costs                                                               
for the bridge. He said there is  no mention of the cost of roads                                                               
to connect downtown Anchorage to the bridge.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WUERCH said that is  actually phase two because the Anchorage                                                               
transportation  plan "says  that that  connection cannot  be made                                                               
until the highway to highway  connection is complete." He said in                                                               
2021 or 2023  there would be enough traffic for  a second viaduct                                                               
across Ship Creek. The first  connection would be from "A" Street                                                               
and "C" Street and the existing viaduct.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked if the  cost of upgrading the four-mile                                                               
connections from "A" and "C" Streets is in the estimate.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. WUERCH said those costs are  included, and it is "$62 million                                                               
for  a bottom  of  the bluff  connection and  $63  million for  a                                                               
tunnel."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:32:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO asked when the bridge would be open.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WUERCH  said December  2009 is  an optimistic  but attainable                                                               
date.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:33:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB   FRENCH,  Co-Vice   President,  Government   Hill  Community                                                               
Council,  Engineering  Consultant,  Anchorage, said  he  commutes                                                               
along the Glenn  Highway between Eagle River  and Anchorage every                                                               
day. He noted  a letter from the mayors  of the Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
Borough,  the Kenai  Peninsula Borough,  and the  Municipality of                                                               
Anchorage proposing reduced  funding for bridges in  order to fix                                                               
existing  road problems.  He said  the mayors  note that  the two                                                               
bridges  and  the  Juneau access  road  will  cause  "unnecessary                                                               
increased   fatalities,   congestion    and   maintenance   costs                                                               
throughout   the  state.     Mr.   French   said  Mr.   Ottesen's                                                               
presentation  showed that  the overall  STIP is  underfunded, and                                                               
the state can't afford to fund  new projects when it can't afford                                                               
to  fix current  problems.  He stated  that Governor  Murkowski's                                                               
budget only  has $94 million for  the Knik Arm Bridge  which will                                                               
only fund 3/20th of the total cost.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. FRENCH related  that it is premature to  fund something where                                                               
the  draft  environmental  impact  statement  "is  not  even  put                                                               
forward and  we have no idea  of either where the  routes will go                                                               
or what those  costs are going to be." He  urged the committee to                                                               
look at the opportunities lost if the bridges are funded.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:36:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BERNARDO  HERNANDEZ,  Director,   Community  Planning,  Fairbanks                                                               
North Star Borough, said he is  on the technical committee of the                                                               
Metropolitan  Planning   Organization  (MPO)  of   the  Fairbanks                                                               
Metropolitan  Area Transportation  System (FMATS).  The Fairbanks                                                               
MPO  has  historically  received  $10 million  of  federal  funds                                                               
passed through  Alaska's DOT&PF per  year for road  projects, and                                                               
DOT&PF  Commissioner Mike  Barton  recently gave  notice that  it                                                               
would now be awarded half  of that. "This reduction is especially                                                               
poignant when considering that in  2005 our budget was reduced by                                                               
$4.2  million due  to  deductive federal  earmarks  and a  rushed                                                               
effort by  DOT&PF to protectively  obligate funding which  in the                                                               
end was allocated to other state road projects," he stated.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HERNANDEZ said that  the Fairbanks Transportation Improvement                                                               
Program has  been approved by the  Federal Highway Administration                                                               
and has undergone  an extensive public review  process, which was                                                               
based  on the  historical $10  million annual  funding level.  He                                                               
said  that  the  cuts  have devastated  the  budget  for  several                                                               
critical  road  projects.  These projects  include  major  access                                                               
corridors that are  substandard and over capacity,  he added. The                                                               
road projects are also essential to the state's gasline project.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HERNANDEZ said  that  Fairbanks  is a  regional  hub of  the                                                               
north, and it is a growing community. He noted that the SAFETEA-                                                                
LU  bill  is  important  because Alaska  will  receive  31%  more                                                               
funding than  the previous bill,  but Fairbanks will  receive 50%                                                               
less.  At 65  degrees latitude,  the  FMAT area  faces many  road                                                               
construction  challenges and  expenses. He  said that  creating a                                                               
center left-turn lane on one  road will "consume an entire year's                                                               
allocation to  our MPO. We  need to  act now. Please  restore our                                                               
funding to its historical levels."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:40:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM COLVER,  Deputy Mayor and Assembly  Member, Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
Borough, Palmer, said transportation  corridors are clogged and a                                                               
Knik Arm  Bridge will  not help with  the immediate  problems. He                                                               
said the  borough was  assured that the  bridge would  not derail                                                               
funding for  essential transportation projects, and  "we now know                                                               
that not  to be the case."  He said the borough  does not believe                                                               
in  the governor's  proposed allocations,  and is  wondering what                                                               
happened to  the remaining $140  million that was slated  for the                                                               
bridge  that has  left  Southcentral Alaska.  He  asked why  that                                                               
money went  to a $50 million  study for a railroad  to Canada. He                                                               
said the borough  would support using the money  for roads rather                                                               
than a study.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. COLVER  stated that the  Matanuska-Susitna Borough  fares the                                                               
worst in the proposed STIP,  losing $25 million for road projects                                                               
that  had been  scheduled for  2006.  "We're not  even funded  at                                                               
status quo,"  he noted.  He added that  the borough's  roads have                                                               
the  highest  fatality  rates  and  the  region  is  the  fastest                                                               
growing.  He said  that by  2025, 20  roads in  the area  will be                                                               
beyond capacity. If  critical improvements are not  made, 20 more                                                               
roads   will  fail,   he  added.   He   said  several   important                                                               
improvements to the Parks and  Glenn highways, initiated with the                                                               
2004 and  2006 STIP, have  no funding  in the new  STIP. "History                                                               
shows that  if we do not  continue STIP projects, they  will drop                                                               
off  the  list,"  he  said.  He noted  that  the  sewer  meridian                                                               
improvements  have  been  pushed  to  2009,  and  he  gave  other                                                               
examples  of   projects  that  are   getting  into   "the  never-                                                               
neverland."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:43:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. COLVER  added that air  quality funds are  completely deleted                                                               
from the borough,  and such funds should be  spread equally among                                                               
regions, giving extra consideration  for communities that provide                                                               
matching funds. The proposed STIP  allocates over $400 million in                                                               
advance  construction dollars  to large  projects, which  consume                                                               
most of  the allocations previously promised  to the Southcentral                                                               
region, he  said. To  improve roads  and address  critical safety                                                               
needs,  the state  should reduce  allocations to  the large-scale                                                               
projects   to   allow  critical   transportation   infrastructure                                                               
projects  to move  forward.  He asked  the  committee to  restore                                                               
funding to programs previously in the STIP.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:45:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  commented  that  Mr.  Ottesen  said  that                                                               
bridge funding would not take  away from community road programs.                                                               
He added  that the Knik area  is the largest growing  part of the                                                               
region, and the bridge would  help relieve congestion through the                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna corridor.  He said,  "The KABATA  has testified                                                               
earlier  that they  are committed  to putting  funds towards  the                                                               
projects in  the Knik  area, out  to Big Lake,  to help  the road                                                               
improvements  through that...that  would  help  reduce the  funds                                                               
that are  needed from the state  in that area, would  be paid for                                                               
through a toll authority."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:46:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GARRET VAN ABBOTT,  Ketchikan, said he was born  in Ketchikan and                                                               
enjoys living there and wants  the community to prosper. He noted                                                               
that a bridge to Gravina will  not help the majority of Ketchikan                                                               
residents and  is a waste of  money. It will benefit  the few who                                                               
are  invested   in  property.  The  proposed   bridge  will  harm                                                               
Ketchikan and warp the economy,  he said, and cause disruption in                                                               
the tourist  economy. The  ferry works  perfectly and  is quicker                                                               
than the bridge  would be for many residents, he  noted. He asked                                                               
the  fate of  the ferry  if the  bridge were  built. The  massive                                                               
project  will cause  a  cancerous growth  on  Gravina Island,  he                                                               
stated.  He  concluded  that  the   bridge  will  not  accomplish                                                               
anything substantial,  and he  urged the  committee to  spend the                                                               
money on something useful.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:49:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN HOOD, Juneau,  said the DOT&PF presentation  made clear the                                                               
importance  of  prioritizing   Alaska's  transportation  projects                                                               
because of under-funding of the  large list of projects. He asked                                                               
the  committee  to  remove  the   Juneau  access  road  from  the                                                               
proposal.  He  said many  live  in  Juneau  because of  the  wild                                                               
surroundings and lack of road access.  He said he doesn't want to                                                               
see the  region become like  other states; he enjoys  the Alaskan                                                               
character.  He said  the ferry  system  is a  state treasure  and                                                               
should be enhanced. It is not  always affordable to riders, so he                                                               
encouraged the committee  to allocate funding to  the ferries. He                                                               
said the people  who work on the ferries have  many ideas to make                                                               
the system more efficient.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO  said  he  plans on  having  another  hearing  to                                                               
discuss the Marine Highway.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOOD said  he was glad about that and  stressed that the road                                                               
will not  increase quality-of-life  and is a  waste of  money. He                                                               
suggested  it would  increase congestion  and allow  for big  box                                                               
stores which negatively impact locally owned businesses.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:52:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  asked if  Mr. Hood  would support  a ferry                                                               
terminal in Berners Bay.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HOOD  said that  Berners  Bay  is  special  and would  be  a                                                               
national  park if  it were  located anywhere  else, but  he would                                                               
like to  have time to  think about  the question. He  stated that                                                               
downtown is a preferable site for a ferry terminal.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  said the fast  ferry uses 800  gallons per                                                               
hour, and  a terminal in Berners  Bay would save 3000  gallons of                                                               
fuel per day.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOOD  said that is  a good  point, and noted  that Washington                                                               
state ferries run on bio-diesel.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:53:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EMILY FERRY, Director,  Alaska Transportation Priorities Project,                                                               
Juneau, said she represents a  Juneau-based ad hoc watchdog group                                                               
made   up   of   volunteers,  unions,   community   leaders   and                                                               
conservation  groups. She  said  the take-home  message from  the                                                               
hearing  is  that  Alaska doesn't  have  infinite  resources  for                                                               
transportation  funding. She  noted  that there  are many  forces                                                               
Alaska can't control,  but it can control the  projects the state                                                               
chooses  to  put its  limited  funding  into.  She said  the  $90                                                               
million dollars for each bridge and  the $45 million for a Juneau                                                               
access  road are  just the  tip  of the  iceberg. "We're  talking                                                               
about  billions  of  dollars  of investments  that  we  would  be                                                               
committing here." She  said the committee needs to  be aware that                                                               
the projects are the number one  thing that the state can control                                                               
at this point. There are  many other priorities including safety,                                                               
congestion and  efficiency needs. She  added that the  future gas                                                               
pipeline will  need improvements to the  National Highway System,                                                               
including  the Dalton  and  Alaska Highways.  She  said that  the                                                               
current  STIP eliminated  $256  million from  the  last STIP  for                                                               
projects that would facilitate gas pipeline construction.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:56:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CLIFF  LOBAUGH,   retired  veterinarian,  Juneau,  said   he  was                                                               
initially opposed to the ferry system,  but he has had to "eat my                                                               
words"  because it  brought the  communities  together. He  noted                                                               
that people in  outlying areas don't have the same  access to the                                                               
ferries because  it has not been  kept up. He said  he is opposed                                                               
to  the road.  He noted  that Annette  Island once  had the  best                                                               
airport in  the country. He  mentioned the proposed  plywood mill                                                               
in  Berners Bay  that was  successfully resisted.  Juneau's ferry                                                               
terminal  was moved  far from  the main  visitors center,  and he                                                               
said he  is against most  of the  things proposed by  Mr. Ottesen                                                               
and DOT&PF commissioner Mike Barton.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:02:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB DOLL, Executive Director, Better  Ferries For Alaska, Juneau,                                                               
said  he  represents  a  coalition   of  communities  and  groups                                                               
interested  in  expanding the  marine  highway  system and  other                                                               
ferries. He  said that coastal  Alaska is served by  ferries, and                                                               
there  is  concern  that  it   will  be  short-changed  by  other                                                               
projects. Ferry systems require  capital investment and operating                                                               
dollars,  and he  suggested  the committee  focus  on the  DOT&PF                                                               
mission: the movement of people and goods.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:04:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JANET  KUSSART, Juneau,  said  she prefers  to  keep Berners  Bay                                                               
pristine and  maintain the ferry  system without a  Juneau access                                                               
road. She asked  the committee to consider the many  needs in the                                                               
state,  and postulated  that  Anchorage  and Fairbanks  residents                                                               
would rather repair their roads than  build a road out of Juneau.                                                               
The Juneau  access road would  not really go anywhere,  she said,                                                               
except  to a  ferry terminal  "somewhere north."  Travelers would                                                               
still  need to  take a  ferry to  get to  Haines or  Skagway. She                                                               
urged the committee  to keep the ferries  running and dependable.                                                               
Ms. Kussart  told a story of  friends trying to get  to Juneau to                                                               
visit  the public  market. They  tried  two roads  to Haines  and                                                               
Skagway, and  the roads were  both closed. They waited  until one                                                               
road opened up  and were lucky enough to catch  the fast ferry in                                                               
order to make  it to Juneau in  time. She noted that  if they had                                                               
had to take a road to Juneau,  it would likely be closed and they                                                               
would never had made it, but the ferry got them to Juneau.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:07:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAN  WRENTMORE,   Saloon  Owner,   Skagway,  said  she   is  also                                                               
representing  the Skagway  Marine Access  Committee (SMAC)  which                                                               
supports marine access in Lynn  Canal and opposes a Juneau access                                                               
road. She  said that  despite the testimony  of Mr.  Ottesen, the                                                               
current STIP is a failure  of the transportation planning process                                                               
and  demonstrates  that transportation  in  Alaska  has become  a                                                               
political football. She noted that  with little or no explanation                                                               
two thirds of Alaska's long-awaited  improvements to the existing                                                               
transportation system  have been stripped and  replaced with mega                                                               
projects, such as  the Juneau road, which  receives only marginal                                                               
support and  will drain the  state's transportation  coffers long                                                               
into the  future. She said  local officials across the  state are                                                               
protesting  the slashing  of funds  from much-needed  repairs and                                                               
upgrades to  local facilities  and infrastructure,  including the                                                               
Alaska Marine Highway. In Skagway  alone, she noted, two projects                                                               
with  extreme   importance  to   public  safety--the   Dyee  Road                                                               
improvements   and    the   gateway    pedestrian   project--have                                                               
disappeared from the STIP.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WRENTMORE  asked  what the  rationale  was  for  supplanting                                                               
priority  projects for  a little-supported  road. She  noted that                                                               
Haines, Skagway, and more than  half of Juneau have voted against                                                               
the  road.  "When   have  the  people  in  Lynn   Canal  had  the                                                               
opportunity  to  comment  on  the Gravina  Bridge  and  Knik  Arm                                                               
crossing  and   the  clear   impacts  they   will  have   on  the                                                               
availability of  future funding for  local projects?"  she asked.                                                               
She requested  that the  funding that has  been removed  from the                                                               
STIP for  ferries and  local fix-it  projects be  re-instated and                                                               
that the  Juneau road  and other mega  projects be  removed until                                                               
the  Alaskan  public  has  had  an  opportunity  for  review  and                                                               
comment.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:11:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE BARTON, Commissioner, Department  of Transportation & Public                                                               
Facilities, Juneau, said DOT&PF  supports good transportation. He                                                               
said  DOT&PF has  heard  a  variety of  perspectives,  but it  is                                                               
important   to   know    that   the   congressional   delegation,                                                               
particularly Don  Young, has  worked hard to  get this  money. He                                                               
said  the state  is getting  $2.5 billion  for transportation  in                                                               
Alaska over  the next  five years  which is  more than  the state                                                               
ever has.  He noted that he,  like others, wished the  money were                                                               
"in different pockets."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO said  there are 30 people on line  that would like                                                               
to testify. He  said he would stay around while  most of the rest                                                               
of the committee could go to other appointments.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:12:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD THOMAS, Craig Community Association,  Craig, said the city                                                               
of Craig and  the community association have  identified the Port                                                               
St. Nicholas road  project as important to the  community. It has                                                               
been in the works since 1993,  he said, and was identified in the                                                               
last two  STIP processes as a  joint DOT&PF and Bureau  of Indian                                                               
Affairs  project   with  each  contributing  $3   million.  After                                                               
preliminary engineering,  he said,  it became apparent  that more                                                               
funding  was needed,  and  DOT&PF said  it  would absolutely  not                                                               
provide  more funding  because  it  was trying  to  do away  with                                                               
community-based  transportation projects.  He said  the community                                                               
association  requested   funds  through   Alaska's  congressional                                                               
delegation. Congressman  Young had identified $3  million back to                                                               
the project; however, DOT&PF is  proposing to offset those funds.                                                               
He noted that without the money,  the road will end up too narrow                                                               
and unsafe.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:16:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JANELLE WALTON,  Anchorage, noted that  KABATA said the  Knik Arm                                                               
crossing  is going  to  cost  $600 million,  but  a DOT&PF  study                                                               
estimates  the cost  at  $1.5 billion.  She said  it  was a  huge                                                               
difference,  and  there  needs  to be  serious  research  on  the                                                               
estimate.  She added  that the  toll estimate  of $3.00  to $5.00                                                               
each way is a  ridiculous amount to pay and would  add up to $120                                                               
-  $200  a month  for  the  average  commuter. It  is  especially                                                               
ridiculous, she  pointed out, since  KABATA's own study  has said                                                               
there  is no  significant  change  in the  time  for the  commute                                                               
between Wasilla and Anchorage. She  asked why commuters would pay                                                               
so much  to shave five  minutes off of  a commute, and  why would                                                               
the  state want  to spend  $1.5 billion  to build  something that                                                               
won't save anyone  any time. She said the state  needs to look at                                                               
the real cost  of the bridge. She noted  that avalanches stranded                                                               
drivers last  year because DOT&PF  has cut funding  on snowplows.                                                               
She said very basic maintenance has been cut.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO asked  Mr.  Wuerch about  the  $1.5 billion  cost                                                               
estimate.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WUERCH said that study was  done in 2003 by the Alaska DOT&PF                                                               
who had  hired a  good firm to  price out a  project from  a 1984                                                               
Environmental Impact  Statement (EIS), but there  were many flaws                                                               
in the  EIS. He said that  study had bridge piers  further apart.                                                               
The study also  had "forty miles of  new road to come  in west of                                                               
Nancy Lake to the Parks Highway.  To look at the $1.5 or whatever                                                               
number that was in there, compared  to the proposal that's on the                                                               
table  today  and sponsored  by  the  Knik  Arm Bridge  and  Toll                                                               
Authority, they're like apples and oranges," he said.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WALTON said  that before  the committee  takes Mr.  Wuerch's                                                               
word, the members need to take  a look at these studies. She said                                                               
that Mr.  Wuerch's proposal  removes many of  the roads  to Point                                                               
McKenzie, which are gravel roads  and four-wheeler roads and will                                                               
need  to be  upgraded. It  will taka  a huge  amount of  money to                                                               
upgrade the roads  that lead to the bridge, she  stated. If there                                                               
will be  much commuter  traffic there needs  to be  roads created                                                               
and upgraded  substantially. "There's  all of these  road systems                                                               
that have been conveniently removed  from the project to get this                                                               
$600 million  mark," she said,  because KABATA does not  want the                                                               
bridge to  be seen  as a  mega project. "There  needs to  be more                                                               
research before  we just blindly  sink money in there,  and watch                                                               
it just  turn into this hole  where more and more  money needs to                                                               
be put into it," she concluded.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:23:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRED ATTHORP, Ketchikan, said that  the Gravina Island Bridge all                                                               
started with a  Gravina Island federal land sale  which offered a                                                               
preference  for  [military] veterans.  So  a  group of  investors                                                               
advertised in  Seattle for veterans to  buy the land and  turn it                                                               
over to the  investors. Enough veterans were found,  he said, and                                                               
a  plane  was  chartered  to  bring them  up  to  make  the  land                                                               
purchase.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. ATTHORP noted that he  received an email from Thailand asking                                                               
about  "the bridge  to nowhere."  "The absurdity  of this  bridge                                                               
seems to be a national  embarrassment and an international joke,"                                                               
he  said, "and  the money  would  serve the  public interest  far                                                               
better if were spent on highways  or our ferry system rather than                                                               
to   build  a   bridge  so   that  a   few  politically-connected                                                               
speculators could make a profit on deviously acquired land."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:25:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GLENN  MILLER,   Director,  Department  of   Transportation,  Air                                                               
Quality  Division,  Fairbanks  North  Star Borough,  said  it  is                                                               
absolutely necessary to  maintain the current STIP  for a program                                                               
called Congestion  Mitigation Air  Quality (CMAQ). He  noted that                                                               
the  Fairbanks area  has gotten  $2  million appropriations  from                                                               
DOT&PF  through  STIP  due  to  previous  violations  for  carbon                                                               
monoxide  levels.  These  funds  are used  to  implement  control                                                               
measures for  air quality, he  said, and now DOT&PF  has proposed                                                               
to eliminate the  funding in fiscal year 2007.  The projects have                                                               
gone  through an  extensive approval  process at  federal, state,                                                               
and local  levels involving FMATS,  DOT&PF, the  Federal Highways                                                               
Administration,  the Environmental  Protection  Agency (EPA)  and                                                               
the Alaska  Department of  Environmental Conservation.  The money                                                               
is used  for control measures  designed to keep  Fairbanks within                                                               
attainment.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:27:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILLER said  EPA  has recently  proposed  changes that  will                                                               
affect the Fairbanks  area with regard to  particulates. "Even at                                                               
current  EPA  established  particulate  standards,  Fairbanks  is                                                               
barely  within the  threshold for  particulates and  [it] appears                                                               
that level is rising. In  this month alone air quality advisories                                                               
have been  issued seven  times as  our 24-hour  readings measured                                                               
within the  unhealthy-for-sensitive-groups range."  Area families                                                               
want to rely  more on wood heat as fuel  prices increase, but air                                                               
quality problems  require limited  use of  wood stoves.  He noted                                                               
that Fairbanks  has demonstrated  five years of  clean monitoring                                                               
data  for carbon  monoxide, shifting  the emphasis  from reaching                                                               
attainment   to  maintaining   attainment.   He  urged   historic                                                               
appropriations of funding through the STIP.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:29:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN COMBS,  Mayor, Palmer, Alaska,  said the STIP does  not come                                                               
close  to  the transportation  needs  of  the  core area  of  the                                                               
Matanuska Valley.  He said Representative Neuman  is correct that                                                               
the  Knik area  is growing  fast  in terms  of percentages,  "but                                                               
we're  talking somewhere  in the  neighborhood of  5-8000 people,                                                               
while  in the  core area  we're talking  7% to  8% growth  in 40-                                                               
45,000 people." In the past  five years, 12,000 people have moved                                                               
into the  area. Some roads were  built in the 1950s,  "and anyone                                                               
coming from Anchorage and has  to go west onto Palmer-Wasilla has                                                               
to come all the way down  to the Palmer intersection at the Glenn                                                               
and Evergreen,  and take a  left and go west  in order to  get to                                                               
Wasilla,  to shopping  areas and  to the  residential areas."  He                                                               
said a  right-of-way has  been requested,  as well  as "a  lot of                                                               
things. Some  things just  keep being pushed  back on  the STIP."                                                               
The roads are crowded and  dangerous, so "we're moving people but                                                               
we're  also killing  people by  moving them  on these  roads," he                                                               
stated. He added that reconstruction  of a road between the Parks                                                               
Highway  and  a  Palmer  road   to  a  four-lane  road  has  been                                                               
repeatedly delayed. He spoke of  other delayed STIP projects. The                                                               
Palmer-Wasilla highway  was on the  STIP and has  disappeared, he                                                               
noted, and  the Old Glenn Highway  has been pushed back  and then                                                               
disappeared. "If  you take a look  at what has occurred  with the                                                               
preliminary proposal  from the STIP, and  you take a look  at the                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna  Valley,   which  is  now  the   third  largest                                                               
concentration of  citizens in the  State of Alaska,  between West                                                               
Wasilla  and East  Palmer, it's  almost like  we're ignoring  the                                                               
bear that  is in the living  room, here. There's a  lot of people                                                               
moving in here;  we're gaining 500 students in  our school system                                                               
each  and every  year. And  if  you take  a look  at what's  been                                                               
allocated in this  proposal, it doesn't even  begin to adequately                                                               
meet our needs," he concluded.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO requested emails  to the committee from interested                                                               
public regarding the proposal.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:34:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There  being  no  further   business,  the  House  Transportation                                                               
Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:35 p.m.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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